Mark responded to some of my previous arguments made in, "Hashing it out with a Politically Correct Sloganeer," and, while his tone is still belligerent, somewhere in there he brings out a few of the platitudes typical of the left, so I think it's a good opportunity, for the benefit of anyone else who happens to be reading, to defuse them. Of course, the lewd or vulgar comments in his original response will be edited out.
Where we disagree is where you have a desire to acquire more land--and dislodge the people who do live there.
Really, we acquired it in the Torah from Sinai, which obliges us to live in and exert sovereignty over this land. It came under Jewish soveriegnty in 1967. Unfortunately, I have a government which refuses to exert that sovereignty, but that's a problem we are trying to fix. As far as dislodging the people who do live there, so what? They openly dream of doing the same to us, and have repeatedly and persistantly acted on those dreams. They surrendered their right to live there when they attempted genocide in '67. What nation on Earth was not built on the ruins of the previous nation?
It does not threaten me in the slightest that Palestinians want a state, if such a state can be produced, on the occupied territories, without a threat to Israel I support such a state in it's emergence.
Again, what makes you think the, "Palestinians," as you call them are interested in statehood? You (and by you I mean the western secularists who invented Palestinian Nationalism) have this concept of secular nationalism, and you've convinced yourself that the Arabs, who organize themselves around tribe, clan, and religion, want to be just like you. The paternalist hypocracy in this sort of, "White Man's Burden" runs pretty deep. Doesn't shoving secular nationalism down the throats of a culture in which secularism and nationalism don't exist seem a bit Orientalist... dare I say Colonialist?
Your movement is a leech on Israeli society, you want Israel to pour money and resources into far flung settlement endevour in order to hold on to territory which has a massive Arab majority and will never become part of Israel under any final status accord.
The National Religious school system has the highest test scores in the nation. The settlers serve with distinction in their military units far beyond their numbers in society. The settlers live in tiny aspestos trailers on forlorn hilltops while the rest of the country builds massive homes and swimming pools on the coastal plain. Meanwhile, the ruling class, symbolized by Olmert, has draft-dodger kids who run away from Israel. And we're the leaches? Get real.
You need to stop your messianic hallucinations and grow up.Reality is like a splash of cold water -- wake up.
I would say the same to those who have convinced themselves there exists a Palestinian National movement. Your fantasies have already cost us 1500 lives since 1993. Wake up!
"The Arabs have repeatedly proved themselves incapable of self-rule without lapsing into enraged attempts to exterminate their Jewish neighbors." Right, and by this logic, no peace accord with Jordan should exist?
The Arabs have repeatedly proved themselves incapable of self-rule without lapsing into enraged attempts to exterminate their Jewish neighbors."Right, and by this logic, no peace accord with Jordan should exist?
I'm all for good relations with Israel's neighbors, but there is not currently peace between the Jordanian and Israeli peoples. There is a very cold peace treaty between the unelected dictator of Jordan and the Israeli elite. The day the first Arab state is at peace with all of its neighbors is the day I'll believe peace might be possible between Arabs and Jews. The day I can visit Amman wearing a kippah and not have to fear violence is the day I believe Peace has arrived.
Egypt, meanwhile, with which Israel has a peace treaty, is currently waging proxy war against Israel via Gaza. Fat lot of good that treaty did.
Silwan will NOT remain a part of israel under any final status negotiations... This place will surely become part of any territorial concessions made to the future Palestinian state.
As mentioned earlier, since the "Palestinians" have violently rejected statehood four times in the past century, it stands to reason that they will continue to do so in the future, and there will be no Palestinian State to which to surrender it.
Remember, Palestinian Nationalism is just a kosher way of hating Jews.
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